Diversity in DeafRead
Normally I don’t post more than once a day, but I was surfing DeafRead and I saw people blogging for the CI blogs to stop. I feel compelled to say something on this matter.
Has everyone forgotten the Deficit Thinkers fiasco already? Nobody owns DeafRead. Not the CI users. Not the DeafHooders. This is a place where we can exchange our thoughts, feelings, ideas then debate and refine those things.
The cochlear implant situation is a very much part of our community. It’s here to stay. Instead of brushing it aside and refusing to talk about it, I think the best thing for us to do is educate ourselves on the technological advancements and continue to debate the pros and cons of it. Otherwise, how will we be able to share or debate with parents our feelings on it without looking ignorant?
I have to also say that Rachel, whose blog caused such angst, is part of the Deaf Community. Rachel may not use American Sign Language and have misconceptions about many things about us, but she’s still one of us. Castigating her for who she is, isn’t going to help her feel welcome and be open to learning more about us. Rachel does not know the complexity of those issues because she doesn’t really see the need to. She is happy with who she is and considers herself to be very successful. Why are we angry about that?
I can understand being angry when lies and misconceptions are being spread about ASL and the Deaf culture, but we haven’t exactly made ourselves very endearing to people like Rachel. When someone goes off at her, it only intensifies her and others’ beliefs and misconceptions about us.
In my previous blog post, CI Militants, I was furious at Susanna and I now realize I may have given the wrong impression. I was furious at Susanna because she was very dismissive of us, our experiences and ASL. She’s the one who I considered to be a CI militant. She should know better because after all, she is an adult and should be open-minded enough to explore all angles to this issue. But she blatantly dismissed us and that’s wrong.
But it’s also wrong when Deaf people dismiss people like Rachel and her experiences. It’s the reality for her and others like her.
And I feel I need to clarify this part: while I dislike CIs in general and will not choose it for myself, I do think it’s important for us to respect other people’s decisions when it comes to CIs. It does work for some people.
We need to continue emphasizing that the CI industry, the doctors and audiologists need to be transparent with their data, numbers and research so the parents then are able to make a fully informed decision.
Through our v/blogs, we can be part of that. If you don’t want to discuss CIs on your v/blog, then don’t. Your v/blog is your internet home/cafe/whatever you like to call it. Your v/blog is your place. It’s your right to post about whatever you want and if it’s any good, readers will come and discuss that topic that you enjoy discussing about.
You also have the choice of not reading v/blogs that you don’t like or agree with. Nobody is forcing you to go to a particular v/blog and watch or read that post. Nobody’s forcing you to discuss those issues that was on a particular site.
It’s all about freedom of speech and choices. I’ve yet to find someone who 100% agrees with me and other v/bloggers on every single thing that’s been posted. So if we want to boot CI blogs off DeafRead, then someone’s going to want to boot DeafHood blogs off. Then pretty soon there’ll be no v/blogs left on DeafRead.
Is that what we want?
82 Comments
Comments are closed.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Amen, DP!
grendelq said,
January 20, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Agree 100%!
(See, now if we all had exactly the same perspective, there’d be a whole lot of really boring comments like this one of mine giving the thumbs up to every post
What fun would that be?)
~ Beth
Paula Rosenthal said,
January 20, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Deaf Pundit,
What an eloquent post!
I’m an oral deaf person who has chosen cochlear implants for myself and also one for my daughter. She chose the second one for herself. (See my post on HearingExchange today about that.)
I’ve been invited more than once to become a cochlear advocate and have always declined without hesitation. Cochlear implants are a personal choice, I’m not interested in telling anyone else they should get one (or two). But I do share my experiences on HearingExchange and before groups who’ve asked me to so that people who are looking for information can get first-person accounts of what it’s like for an adult and also for a parent going through the process for their child. Doctors and audiologists only have one side of the issue. It is those of us who have experienced it whose voices need to be heard, whether our experience has been great, okay or terrible.
I’m glad you stood up for Rachel. Like all of ours, her voice should be heard as well. For people to attack her for her beliefs and experiences will only serve to divide the new oral deaf generation from the rest of the deaf community. What good can possibly come from that?
anon said,
January 20, 2008 at 3:41 pm
It’s Deafhood, not DeafHood. If you aren’t sure, you can check the book. Nowhere in there does it say DeafHood. Thanks.
todos la vie said,
January 20, 2008 at 3:43 pm
You know when we have a baby, we need to nurture it and give it more attention until it has blossomed on its own? It can then generate a reverence and stand against time? I was talking with Joey B. the other day and this dawned on me. We know that its ardent support is by those who benefit from ASL greatly but those who have not tried it create a verisimilitude in their discussion here on DeafRead. ASL is still a “baby” in support here without going into its historical formations and logistics. Now, knowing communication has to be visual, to which DeafRead has propelled its public offerings via vLogs to our homes with a click of the button.
Yet compared to the auditory and speech perspective and those wanting to “talk” to their hearing neighbors but never quite getting there like every other “normal” hearies, they fight to stay on a wild goose chase. That wild goose chase is a larger audience, unfortunately and they are at the homerun base saying, “fuck you, I know better than you, so shut the f— up,” when in fact they didn’t hit the ball and run to first, second, or third bases. They just walked right over and stomped their foot on that plate. While we ASL users are watching them wondering, what the heck? Who’s gonna listen to those fuckers?
Noelle said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Kudos to you for putting sensibility back into the discussion! Thanks, DP.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Todos la vie,
I’m not quite getting what you’re saying.
I don’t think I’m on a wild goose chase or telling anyone fuck you.
And yes, I admit, I am trying to reach a wider audience. Is that wrong of me? I decide what to do with my blog. You decide what you do with your v/blog.
I am seeing more and more parents here willing to listen to us. But they’re not going to listen if we’re constantly screaming negativity and for censorship.
By all means, share and discuss the beauty of ASL, and the history of it. You can do that without being negative.
White Ghost said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I’m with you, DP.
Have the CI users to feel welcome to the Deafread. We can all learn from the datas, records, statistics and so forth. It’s the reliable sources we really need.
We need to respect other people’s decision regarding the CI’s.
If a person does not want to use CI, then, he/she have the right to choose to do so.
If a person decides to go further with the CI, that is fine with me.
Iammine, my arm is on your shoulder. I am with you all the way. Despite on the Chipmuck’s blog, a commenter slammed the CI users from the deafread.
White Ghost
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Good job for letting us know that despite our differences, our opinions, etc., we are still united by the fact that we are just deaf. If one is happy without ASL, fine. If happy with ASL, fine. If happy with CI, fine as well.
The point is the constructive dialogues and the willingness to hear all the sides of the topics.
Go gal!
seekgeo said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:09 pm
All I want to say is BEAUTIFUL post!! I must say that I am not pleased with Joey and DE’s comments on other site, they are not better than us.
Every b/vloggers have rights to say whatever they want on their own site and it is up to people to either read/view or ignore it.
I would never, again.. I would NEVER tell someone how to run their website because I won’t like it if someone tells me how to run my own, period!
Funny, I must mention this.. I received an e-mail a few weeks ago saying that he LOVES my website but he is concerned that I talk about personal, etc which blog/vlog should be all about Deaf Culture, ASL and Deaf topic. I fell down laughing, no kidding! I guess not everyone understand what “blog” means. It means free to talk about anything! Just because I am Deaf, doesn’t mean I have to talk about deaf topics only.
It is up to every b/vloggers to decide what kind of website they want to run.
I hope to meet you one day, DP!!
-SG
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:12 pm
SG, thanks. I hope to meet you someday too!
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:23 pm
*grins at White Ghost, squeezes your neck with my arm*
SG, you’d have a blast with DP! I had the pleasure of meeting the midget in Flint. *teasing DP*
I DO understand the feelings on the Deaf’s side, but to come out and say those things on Rachel – it is just going to backfire on us, giving clueless hearing people the wrong impression of the Deaf Culture and ASL.
I’m so glad Noelle made her comment the way she did. This coming from an oral and non-signing deaf person to set the record straight! Thanks, Noelle!
I’ve been meaning to ask – I’d love to have your email address, Noelle!
Again, two thumbs up, DP!
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:24 pm
*Rachel’s blog…
*mumbles in ASL* You know what I mean…
White Ghost said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Iammine –
I think that Rachel is only a teenager, you know we are dealing with the teenage syndrome…..;-)
Mumbling with a comb.
Felicity H. said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Deaf Pundit,
Where did Deafchip say that anyone should be “booted” off Deaf Read? Did you misunderstand his signing? He signed “push aside the CI issue”. That’s not the same as “boot people off Deaf Read.” He just means he is proposing that people focus more on ASL issues.
You are being hypocritical, because you, in essence, are attempting to suppress his message, while at the same time you are pretending to be a supporter of open debate. You need to allow Deafchip to make the proposal that Deaf Read participants should debate CI’s less, and ASL issues more.
You are using the word “diversity” as a smoke screen. Diversity does not mean that every forum on the internet should be a gathering place to discuss all views as if they all views had equal worth.
This is a free country, and that means that people can choose to associate themselves based on what they want to advocate and what they think is right. That means, people like Deafchip can speak up and say: “Hey, let’s focus more on this issue!”
If you go against that, then you are being anti-American and oppressive against others’ right to free association and you are being oppressive against their right to make statements to enable their right to make their preferences publicly known.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Felicity, no, I didn’t misunderstand DeafChip. I was responding to Joey and DE, actually.
Jodi said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I want to meet Geo, too…A Deaf Pundit, thank you for this post,it is so perfect.:)Jodi
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I just left a comment on Deaf Chipmunk. I had not read it until I saw this blog.
Groan. I was disappointed in Joey and DE’s comments… DeafRead should be for all kinds of deaf people… I said that DeafRead’s policy was to accept any DEAF-centric v/blogs and it said nothing about DeafRead being ASL-centric only.
My husband feels uncomfortable and I guess that led him to question the “unconditional acceptance on one conditional aspect… ASL” so he said wrong words. We are like Anna S, we have a late-deafened son who communicates orally at mainstream school and uses ASL at home and we have a deaf daughter who attends a deaf school… we already saw that Bi Bi method did not work for my son who is an auditory learner but it works for my daughter who is a visual learner. Which helps me to have a “balanced” view of the deaf community and to realize that every deaf person is different.
Ugh, excuse me for ranting my frustration. It is just that the percentage of deaf children attending deaf schools went down to 15% in 2007 from 33% in 1997 and I see that we need to think out the box and learn to make compromises something like that, instead of being negative about CIs, AGB, etc.
*waving at commenters who might have low respect of me by now* take care.
Misha said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:45 pm
*hands wave*
Great post, DP!
Misha
todos la vie said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Oh, it wasn’t directed at you.
Deafreak said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:56 pm
75% of sounds in this world hearing people hates to hear.
90% of sights in this world people love to look.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:58 pm
todos,
Ah okay. Glad we cleared that up a bit.
Felicity H. said,
January 20, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Deaf Pundit (#16),
Joey did not say anything wrong. Neither did DE. Also, there was no fiasco, as you claim.
If you read my post carefully (#15) you would understand what I am talking about. You are using the word “diversity” improperly and are distorting its meeting.
Free association is a cherished American right, and that means the owners of Deaf Read have the right to freely associate and do whatever they want with Deaf Read. It is perfectly acceptable if they want to structure Deaf Read to have a focus. There is NOTHING wrong with that (if they choose to do that), and EVERYTHING right with that.
It’s the American way.
If you prohibit people from their right of free association, then there will not be any diversity at all in American. True diversity means that people of like mind who share common values are allowed to congregate together and have “their own place” to do this.
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:03 pm
I disgree with Felicity’s definition of diversity. Diversity means the differences; unlikeness; etc. Unity of diversity means acceptance and respect of people with different backgrounds and different opinions.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about the Deficit Thinkers situation.
And yes, the freedom of assembly is a cherished right and so is freedom of speech. They both are part of the First Amendment of the United States’ Bill of Rights. The culturally Deaf has the full right to assemble and the same is true for CI users. That is not what is in dispute here.
But what is in dispute here is the idea that you people can control DeafRead. You, Joey, DE and others do not own DeafRead. Tayler and Jared own it.
They decide the focus of DeafRead. If people don’t like the focus of DeafRead, then they have a choice to leave, talk with Tayler and Jared about it, or get more of their friends to v/blog about the topics they would like to see on DR.
You decide the focus of your v/blog and nobody else. What I write on my blog is my decision. What you write or record on your v/blog site is your decision. It’s simple as that. I’m not going to go to another person’s site and tell them, you cannot discuss that. I will either agree or disagree with what was posted, and elaborate on why I feel that way.
Nobody’s stopping you guys from vlogging or blogging about ASL.
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:16 pm
DP,
Thanks for sharing with us and teaching us a bit about politics, ownwership, etc.
)
I look forward to reading more of your blogs. I just hope that we all will agree that it is OK to be “different” deaf
)
Felicity H. said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Deaf Pundit (#25),
You are contradicting yourself, in the second to the last paragraph of your post, compared to what you are saying now (in #25).
The whole point of what I have been saying is is the right of the owner(s) of DeafRead to have free association. That means they have the right to create a focus for DeafRead and decide for themselves whether to boot blogs off, or make new rules on who can join.
Now you are attempting to take my words and pretend like that was your message all along, but it wasn’t.
You are/using a fake definition of diversity.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Felicity, I don’t see a contradiction.
I am pointing out that if you demand that Tayler and Jared to remove the CI blogs, which in fact did happen, and the two consent to that… Then the CI’ers can also demand to them that they remove YOUR v/blogs.
It goes both ways.
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:40 pm
*holding my forehead with my fingers* I don’t understand what is going on… I had no inklings that the CI blogs were removed?
It seems to me that DP is advocating for the deaf people’s rights to be heard on DeafRead. And it seems to me that Felicity has a different viewpoint, so she is attacking DP’s advocacy…
*covering my mouth* I am with DP, what she said makes sense to me. Now I am out of here.
Ciao.
Felicity H. said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:42 pm
#28,
You can’t deny the fact that you are misusing the word “diversity”. Every group needs a home base, otherwise there cannot be diversity of groups at all.
That’s the title of your post. You can’t deny that you had the intention of attempting to muzzle Deafchip, Joey and DE based on your fake conception of diversity.
You were attempting to portray them all as being narrow minded, but they are not. They are doing the right thing.
Deafchip, Joey, DE, John Egbert are NOT violating the concept of diversity if they encourage the owners of DeafRead to be Deaf-centric. They exact opposite is true. You are the person who is violating the concept of diversity.
Felicity H. said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I meant: The exact opposite is true.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Karen, the CI blogs weren’t removed. But I do see a person calling for it. He backtracked now.
The rest are calling for more ASL blogs and to drop the CI issue. I’m ALL for more ASL v/blogs. But I draw the line at trying to dictate what v/bloggers can write on their site, leading up to what can be posted on DR.
Felicity, please tell me how I am misusing the word diversity. I am tolerant of different viewpoints, but I resist people trying to tell me what I and others should or should not v/blog.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Yeah…like I said, go and make more ASL vlogs.
Go ASL go!
Problem solved…
Ann_C said,
January 20, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Good post, DP!
Has it occurred to anyone that by opening up DR to more diversity with views from CI users, parents of deaf children, oral deaf, late-deafened, etc. that this very same audience will also read about Deaf culture and ASL as well?
In the months I’ve been on DR, I’ve read v/blogs about Deaf culture and ASL and have come to appreciate this view even though I’m oral deaf and non-signing. I can now understand that those in Deaf culture wish to preserve their ASL language, even though ASL is not my first language, in addition to other deaf issues.
As I’ve come late to ASL and am not fluent in it, I wish for more vlogs to be captioned so that I can at least understand the message the blogger is trying to convey and also learn the signs at the same time. People talk about how their kids pick up their English skills by reading CC’s on TV. I’m not being English-centric here, but if those who advocate ASL and Deaf culture want some understanding and support from the rest of the deaf community and the hearing world, they can enable this understanding by captioning their vlogs. By the same token, those who use videos with speech along with their blogs also should have captioning alongside as well, or even better, a signed version for those whose first language is ASL.
With this diversity comes all kinds of views and misunderstandings as well, which is why one should seek clarification on what a commenter or blogger is trying to say before adding more to a comment. Being angry at or dismissive of a another’s view isn’t very conducive to dialogue.
Those in the Deaf culture carry a tremendous anger towards any suppression of their language or way of life, but that very anger gives a negative view to others who may very well be unaware of the history involved. Yes, educating others can be very tiring, but humor or gentle reminders can be far more effective, and cultivating respect for different views shows an open mind, rather than a closed-door one. An open, positive view can go a long ways to bridging the lack of acceptance or support for Deaf culture and ASL.
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Ann_C, I agree with what you said. I also do think that anger has its place. Because we do have a very legitimate reason to be angry. It’s just that in general, it’s not being expressed constructively or in a healthy way.
I think the best way to deal with this.. and again, this is just my opinion, and you can tell me to go shove it if you disagree with me
That is, tell your stories. Share with the world what happened to you. It’s reaching hundreds of people out there, even into the thousands. That is the power of vlogging and blogging.
valerie said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Thank you for your post. It is nice to finally feel welcome the Deaf Community after 36 years of being HOH/deaf.
Ann_C said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I don’t disagree with you, DP, about anger having its place. However, sometimes it gets misdirected as a blame game that often goes nowhere and causes further divide.
Yep, telling one’s own experience is an effective way to get a message across. Jack’s Eyes blog of a young man’s experience with his CI is one example which depicts one side of the CI issue, Rachel’s blog is another side of it. They are far more credible and have more reach than the bloggers/ commenters who yap their opinions about the pro’s and con’s of CI’s.
I haven’t caught up yet on your “Mom’s Gone Fighting the Deaf Wars” series, but Lord, that’s a book, girl.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:24 pm
A MUST-READ book!!!!!!!!
Book of the CENTURY!
Joey Baer said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Greetings,
It is amazing how people kept on twisting other people’s words. To my relief, I am not worried what people think of me because through my vlogs from day one, I have been clear with my principles.
It is also amazing how people continue to name the names in attempt to pull them down while other group continue and discuss about vision and ideas. The comments above are one good example – attacking me and others for what we said. I take pride for not mentioning the names but stay focused on discussing the idea and problem. That will never change.
kim said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:49 pm
DP–I just logged into DeafRead and yours was the first blog I read today so I haven’t seen the others to know what’s going on, but thanks so much. Once again A GREAT POST.
I have only been reading DeafRead a few months, after years of involvement with late-deafened groups. I know several born-deaf/oral deaf people and late-deaf who sign even, but few culturally deaf, though I do know a few. I’m learning so MUCH in DeafRead about deaf culture. So much more than I could from a book– mainly because you’re all expressing your thoughts on a daily basis. Because my ASL sucks, it would be a long time before I could get this up close and personal with many at one time– which is what makes Deafread so unique. Sometimes I should blog about it.
I feel I have learned a lot here, I’m understanding the culture so much more than I would just reading about it in a book. In fact, I have to say my perspective has changed in many ways, even about my own Deafness– so I have to agree with Anne_C about the many benefits of DeafRead to CI wearers and parents.
The more welcoming you all are the more they will read and this will in turn have a positive affect on their lives and how they view you. I mean– LOOK– I went from wondering why y’all even questioned implanting an infant with a CI (yes I did!) to wondering why the hell I ever thought that was a good idea. And thinking I might get an experimental hybrid to ACCCKKK!
So you’re right– It’s good to be firm in your views, but be gentle in how you treat others.
White Ghost said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Joey,
You need to re-read what you posted at 10:47AM today at Deafchipmuck’s site.
Do we think that deafhood would be a successful by now? I doubt. We have a long way to go, Joey.
You are no longer a good role model, Joey.
NightOwl said,
January 20, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Just got home from catching a football game at Hooters. Rooted for Chargers today, also rooted for the Colts last week….both with no luck…F#$@ the Pats!
Ok…To my surprise I managed to read your post and everyone’s 39 comments. Rare of me to do that.
That means good post. DP
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Joey.
Why don’t you go and leave a comment or two on Rachel’s blog, hearing parents of CI child’s blogs, etc., letting them know that they are warmly embraced even though they don’t know ASL or feel no need to learn ASL? Can you?
Isn’t what Deafhood about? Acceptance of all DEAF people with ALL kinds of communication modes, not only ASL.
observer said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Just a question, White Ghost. Who should I respect more, Joey for being clear with his principles, or you, who hides behind a fake name and insults people left and right? Just wondering.
And DP, frankly, I agree with Felicity. Another issue is that you have a major beef with DE and some others. Your anger at them is coloring how you see things.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Joey, I don’t think I came off as attacking you, but what you said really threw me off.
“Excellent post! I am with you and others. I have expressed my frustrations with DeafRead founders that I thought DeafRead would be “deaf-centric” site. For those CI blogs, they should stay within AGB site.”
How could I have twisted your words?
CI blogs should stay with AGB site – EXCLUSION.
I know you do respect CI folks like me and I, likewise, with you.
But what does that mean by wanting to reject those CI blogs? Because they don’t promote ASL?
Then DR is a great place to educate hearing parents who may not have been exposed had they been posted elsewhere. They would surely check other v/blogs out of curiosity.
I’m guessing that you were named, Joey, is because you are one of the well-known leaders and one of the Deafhood leaders.
brenster- said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:31 pm
#43 – kmayes, from what i understand, it is not what deafhood means. it’s about a person’s journey. your suggestion that joey go to each blog to personally embrace each of them is silly. i don’t see you doing the same to other bloggers and vloggers. ur talking about accepting one another unconditionally is conflicting.
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:35 pm
I do leave comments on bloggers and vloggers, and I have done that in the last almost two years.
Embracing means accepting them as who they are, being happy for them for their decisions.
Read my comments carefully next time
)
Mishkazena said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Brenster
From Ella’s words as a Deafhood proponent:
“The true success of Deafhood is when Deaf people feel “at home” with being Deaf and finds a commonality with other Deaf people in their use of Sign Language and their visual orientation. When we are secure with our own natural language and community, we can be healthier, more creative and more embracing of the diversity surrounding us.” http://www.ellasflashlight.com/?cat=5
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:37 pm
And it is the last time I commented to you brenster…go ahead and attack me, to make you feel good and superior.
*blowing raspberries*
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Thanks for clarifying the definition of Deafhood for me, MZ, with Ella’s quote.
Okay, so they are excluding the deaf oral CI users who do not sign unless they learned ASL?
Interesting.
And that brings me another question:
A deaf person who does not use sign language has NO business of being around us, the ASL users?
Even if they respected us as equals but not using ASL?
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I think we need to recognize the difference between respect and embrace. I do NOT embrace CIs, but I respect them. And I think it’s important that the AVT and CI folk *return* the respect, especially for ASL.
Why cannot we have mutual respect? I’m not asking for all of us to love each other. God knows that’s impossible. But we can least try to respect each other.
There’s a famous poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson that expresses what I’m trying to say, extremely well.
To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children, to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded!
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Right on, DP!
White Ghost said,
January 20, 2008 at 8:55 pm
That is something that I am no longer a fan of Ella’s.
Do we really think that the deafhood would be a successful? I doubt it.
The deafhood leaders will have to roll their sleeves to teach us that they *MUST* respect all of us as equals no matter what, who, how, why and where we are.
Iammine has a *VALID* point.
kmayes said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I promised myself I’d not comment any more until a next time…
But this time I need to say something.
Deafhood = “Deaf” applies to ALL kinds of deaf people, with all kinds of communication modes/methods, not only signed languages… but also spoken and written languages.
If ASL must be part of Deafhood, that the word Deafhood is a wrong word, since it sends a strong message to any rational deaf people that the diversity is accepted, meaning CI people who do not know ASL or has no need for ASL should be accepted. Otherwise, it would have to be ASLhood.
I have my concerns about the way Deafhood is preached.
Now I am signing off and will lurk in the near future. But I do hope that the Deafhood leaders would take this into their heads and acknowledge that every deaf person has his/her different needs… that what works for one does not necessarily mean it should work for the rest of the population. If unable to accept (embrace, whatever), then mutual respect is needed. Gotcha DP.
*wiggling fingers* Nighty.
seekgeo said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:09 pm
To be quite honest, I have no idea what “real” deafhood means because one day I thought I knew what it means until some of these so-called leaders kept saying it but yet they do not practice on it.
I thought “Deafhood” means is to welcome every deaf/hoh person regardless what they are or who they are and whether if they are ASL users, CI, oral, etc.
-SG
Ann_C said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:11 pm
To IamMine’s #50 last question, Thanks, just took the words out of my mouth.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Got another question here for the Deafhood leaders.
Why weren’t they there to support Jeanette (Moot Thoughts & Musings) when things got hot with her CI son? She got bashed.
EVERYONE was aware of what was going on with her in DR.
This mother KNEW ASL.
Where were the Deafhood leaders?
seekgeo said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:18 pm
IamMine,
Can you give me the link to Moot Thoughts & Musings if possible? I haven’t seen it.
-SG
seekgeo said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:20 pm
IamMine,
Can you give me the link to Moot Thoughts & Musings if possible? I haven’t seen it that I remember of.
-SG
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Here you go, SG!
CI Vlogging: One Month since Activation
brenster- said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:28 pm
kmayes, i’m sorry that you viewed my last comment as a form of attacking on you when it was not the intent. i was just pointing out the discussion, because you mentioned deafhood. however, your comment in #49 is really mature.
mz – from what i understand, when deaf people got together to create deaf clubs and establishments where they felt “at home,” those people tended to be signers. it makes sense, because long time ago many signers struggled with communication barrier – naturally, they wanted to meet people who were like them without comm barrier. if sign language was NOT required, then how can a signer and speaker even communicate?
i’m not saying that it’s right or wrong thing. but i can say that it is understandable. myself as a signer, i would like to interact with other signers so that i can feel “free” as i live in the hearing world 99% of time. i am always willing to find ways to communicate with non-signers. now out of 1% of time, i really want to interact with other signers – now am i asking too much?
iammine, it’s not about excluding. many people have heard many stories about how some deafies grew up never meeting a deaf person and when they found a deaf person, deaf club, etc, they finally found a “home.” of course, they didn’t know sign language to begin with, but the deaf community welcomed them. it just had to take some time for them to finally learn sign language. yes, some people had negative experiences with one another. that’s unfortunate, i wish that everything is perfect.
DP – i completely agree about mutual respect. unfortunately, i have not seen it between all different groups.
—-
to sum all up,
really, just like paddy said, deafhood is very complex. no wonder, everyone has different opinions and definitions of it, ha. to me, each individual is unique.
my comment post here is completely first draft and if what i said came out like attacking at you all, i apologize as it’s not the intent. i only dropped by to discuss. ok, thanks-
brenster- said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:33 pm
#57 – iammine, first, i were not aware about this incident in J’s blog. i don’t frequently visit there, so i do not know the whole story about bashing. when you said, “Where were the Deafhood leaders?” are you saying that it’s the responsibility of the Deafhood leaders to go over to each blogs/vlogs to be their protectors? just wondering.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Thanks, brenster.
That was a thoughful post!
Well, things got pretty hot over there and they did not stop by. They comment a lot on v/blogs.
The parents of CI children… I never saw them commenting on any of them.
That’s why I was asking.
If they are reaching out to hearing parents of CI children as they say they want to.
Here’s their opportunity.
See where I’m coming from?
Mishkazena said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Brenster,
I totally understand where you are coming from. I also appreciate the ASL centric nature of DeafRead. However, now with written English, we don’t have communication problems with other deaf people who don’t use ASL. I am hopeful that they will learn to respect Deaf Community and ASL.. What a wonderful opportunity to educate them.
We just need to keep producing more ASL-centric posts
brenster- said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:53 pm
iammine, i understand what you’re saying. it’s just that i don’t think that they are chosen to do that; and they are not obligated to do that, at least in my opinion. maybe they have some favorite v/blogs to visit – hey, please don’t attack them for that. i do have my personal favorites and i would not want to be expected to visit everyone’s sites or at least required to comment in everyone’s site.
you called them leaders; who chose them to be leaders? joey is the leader? i didn’t know that; who appointed him? from what i understand he just set up his own vlog and do things that showed leadership. that’s a big difference with being a leader.
ella, de and gg, three of them just travel around to share what they have studied and understood about the Deafhood. some people called them Deafhood leaders, why? i don’t know. i view them as educators, and i believe that they display good leadership.
deaf community is a center, people come to it. we don’t go to them. make sense?
all in all, it’s not easy to please everyone. we just deal with it and find our place in wherever we want to be.
anonymous blogger said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:53 pm
You said it, DP. Why can’t we have respect on all sides? I just got some comments from CI proponents that sneered at my attempts to reach out. I’m disappointed, but it proves that no one side is handling this better than any other side. *shrug* All sides need to take responsibility for showing respect, kindness, compassion, and an attempt to understand each other even if we disagree
brenster- said,
January 20, 2008 at 9:55 pm
#64 – mz, agree totally. that was also what i said, to vloggers, hey make more vlogs. smile. same with bloggers who wish to do asl-centric topics. thanks-
Deaf dating said,
January 20, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Good topics. It’s up to each person. Everyone has different opinions but some have same experiences.
IamMine said,
January 20, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Hmm, you bring up a good point, Brenster.
I thought they were Deafhood leaders. People keep saying they were.
But you are right…they are not obligated to do that, making comments on v/blogs.
After all, preaching is easier, right?
Ah well. Moving on here then…
I do want peace and respect from ALL sides.
Well, somebody needs to make some funny ASL vlogs… somebody get JohnABC!!
White Ghost said,
January 20, 2008 at 10:08 pm
…..and the Olson Brothers. We need them badly!
Are we voting for the most sexual man on earth?
NightOwl said,
January 20, 2008 at 10:29 pm
White Ghost, consider me the most sexual?
White Ghost said,
January 20, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Why….obviously, you are too young to be married! Beer plaques all over the wall!
hee, hee, hee :-0
R.A.D said,
January 20, 2008 at 11:45 pm
EDIT: That comment was unnecessary. ~ DP
Abbie said,
January 21, 2008 at 2:45 am
Pundit,
Well, I just want to pull up a chair and clink some glasses of something cold to drink. This post reaches the core of some issues.
In real life, when I meet someone I decide whether I care for them based on who they are, not how they hear or what have you. On the other hand when I come on here, it seems like the deciding factor is my CI and because of that, the fact that who I am the rest of the 99% of the time just goes out the window! I have tried to reach out to people by going to deaf fest and what have you but in my experience as soon as one would find out I don’t sign but I talked, they would walk away. The fact the CI never entered the equation because I never got that far. I quickly realized that it is due to the barrier of language. I act the same way when someone starts speaking Swahili to me. I haven’t the slightest idea what is being said so I run, figuratively speaking.
An opinion on one thing prevents so many people from getting to know people who might have SO much to offer to one another.
Felicity H. said,
January 21, 2008 at 4:32 am
DP,
First you say nobody owns Deaf Read, then you recognize that Tayler and Jared own it. You’re not being consistent. You’re changing your message.
ASL-centric people have a right to lobby for Tayler and Jared to create an ASL-centric focus for Deaf Read. The reason you made this post in the first place was because you wanted them to stop lobbying for that.
You based your original message on a false definition of “diversity,” because your definition does not allow for different groups to have a home base.
According to your false definition, no group should have a home base where they can discuss their issues. According to you, every group must allow anyone to join, regardless of whether those people create distractions that ruin the whole purpose of getting together. This means that you do not want groups to get together to participate in forums that have a focus. You want every forum to be unfocused.
That is not a genuine idea of what diversity means. Diversity means that different groups exist with each group having a home base. They interact in various ways, but the groups themselves would not exist at all if they did not have places where they can get together that is considered their home base.
Sean Gerlis said,
January 21, 2008 at 9:29 am
DP –
I am a great supporter for non-deficit thinking. What you wrote in the initial post is a great one. I felt it is necessary to state the obvious to people that we all need to be inclusive with various ideas/opinions within a culture.
Diversity is the biggest role player in culture. If we cannot embrace the diversity, thus we cannot be a culture.
It may sound silly or cliche, but it’s true, really.
Some people are pro-Deaf, pro-Oral, pro-CI, pro-Signers, pro-WHATEVER. We all here have a common issue. We all have hearing loss. The loss of hearing makes who & what we are. We need to learn to set aside our difference and continue to work together on common goals.
Few weeks ago, I became a deficit-thinker myself and decided to step myself out from this ugly role and started fresh again. I got so many positive comments saying how brave I was to admit my mistake and change for the better. (IT HELPED LOT!)
Why can’t anyone folloe this example? Why cannot everyone set aside their own difference and move on to work on the common ground?
In few comments after your post, I notice it begin unravel to the name-pointing. This type of string of comments is a good fire-starter for deficit thinking.
How can we become better people and encourage positive thinking to everyone?
I know, it’s human nature that we will belittle ourselves. But, c’mon, can we make it “not-human nature”???
Again, I’m one of these people who agrees. Great post, DP.
-Sean
Netripized
A Deaf Pundit said,
January 21, 2008 at 10:09 am
*sighs* All right. This is getting pathetic. Seriously, didn’t you understand that when I said that comment I was referring to the v/bloggers, Felicity?
It’s clear to me that you are only here to argue with me, in a blatant attempt to shut me up. It’s not going to work and the more you try, the more I’ll blog and piss off you and your friends.
Oh by the way, you’re also banned. Have a nice day.
Robyn said,
January 21, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Well done on such a well written post with such honesty and sensibility. It was one refreshing to read.
Cheers
Robyn in NZ
C said,
January 21, 2008 at 11:11 pm
I guess those that favor deaf centric v/blogs are going down the path that will take them to pre-civil rights era. Then if they try to get sponsors, usually many companies have no tolerance for any bias, they’re not going to get much sponsors this way. I can’t see Sprint sponsoring an aggregator blog that rejects CI. Pretty soon, you’ll have a person with CI contacting Sprint and say, hey, I’m sorry but I’ve been rejected by an aggregator blog that you sponsor, I can no longer do business with you. Then the next thing you know, others will follow. Sprint is a big major company, they value their reputation. Just like many other companies.
seekgeo said,
January 22, 2008 at 12:41 am
I’m with C – good point!
-SG
White Ghost said,
January 22, 2008 at 9:51 am
C–
Well said. I second you.
Jennifer said,
January 29, 2008 at 10:33 am
DP, I just found your blog and read this post…and wanted to say thank you. I was one of the new CI blogs that just made it onto DeafRead and while I haven’t had any negative comments, I have wondered if I was welcome…sometimes silence can be oppressive, ya know? I wish all the Deaf bloggers were like you…open minded and open hearted. I have added you to my Google Reader and will come back again and again